Greetings,

Sorry for missing the last few recaps but I have the more interesting redpost today. There has been a lot of talk about Diana, especially her Q ability, ricklessabandon and IronStylus attempt to shed some light on the lore and this ability. We also have some clarification on Nautilus' Ultimate ability and Wukongs Decoy ability. Next Xypherous attempts to answer questions about Health regen per 5 seconds and Meddler talks about the MR stats and why it feel like the more you have of it the less it helps you. We finish up the day with the Champion rotation and a discussion about wether rannged adc have enough items to select from.

Enjoy.

Why is there no counter-play options to Nautilus' Ultimate?

Diana problem?

My thoughts on Diana and a suggestion

Let's Talk About Health Regeneration per 5, ID Bretheren

Why is Diana considered a heretic?

Wukong's Decoy

Ranged AD Items - Need more selection

New Free Champion Rotation (Season Two: Week 36)

Question about MR

Xypherous

Why is there no counter-play options to Nautilus' Ultimate?

While the ultimate isn't intended to be completely avoidable - just going to pop in to clear the little bits of misinformation in this thread.
 

Quote:
It's broken - He can cast it on you - You counter it with Zhonya's and it resets his cooldown so he can cast it again after you exit Zhonya's.
This behavior is true for all targetted spells if you use it before the missile is launched or if you use it before the spell is finished - as you become an illegal target and the spell now fails to cast. Using Zhonya's or untargetable abilities after the missile is in the air, will prevent the missile from affecting you, as usual.

This is why Vladimir or Fizz can dodge Nautilus' Ult, for example when it finally hits them.

The key distinction for Nautilus' ultimate here that may be throwing you off is that Nautilus warns you about being the ultimate target when he starts his cast, not when he finishes his cast - so the correct play here is to watch out for the sound indicator, make distance and then Zhonya's when you can see the missile and that Nautilus ult animation is about twice as long as normal cast times.

This was intended so that Nautilus warned you that he was targetted you with his ult if he started his ult cast in brush, for example - so that the opponents would have an extra 0.5 seconds to run.

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Unaffected by Tenacity
Most of our knockups and knockbacks are coupled with secondary stun effects - Nautilus' ultimate is no different. The way his ultimate works is that there's a primary knockup of 0.5 seconds while a simultaneously ongoing stun effect is on you at the same time. So you're knocked up and stunned for the first 0.5 second and then stunned for another 0.5 seconds.

If you have Merc Threads in this instance, you will be able to perform actions again after 0.65 seconds of disable - which is exactly the same for a stun. If you have above 50% Tenacity, his rank one ultimate does leave you in the air longer than the stun duration - but this problem goes away as he gets rank 2/3 of his ult, as your 66% tenacity will then leave you at a total disable duration > 0.5 seconds.

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Cleanse/QSS
It's absolutely true that there's nothing you can do about the 0.5 second of knockup after it hits you - However, you can leave the stunned state early by cleansing or QSS'ing during the knockup - which will help you avoid the 1-2 second stun that is the bulk of Nautilus' Ultimate CC.

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Intended Counterplay?
The intended counterplay for most characters is to simply flee to a place where being stunned won't matter - such as underneath a turret or beyond a wall. It doesn't matter if it hit you if you're in a safe place - not that it's 100% avoidable by all characters. Despite appearances, it's essentially 'extreme dazzle' as HunterHagen rightly points out.

Let me know if there's something feels off about either of these explanations - as it probably means something is bugged and I should look into it.
ricklessabandon

Diana problem?

it's intentional. she can charge/use her passive on towers, though the passive's damage versus towers themselves is reduced by 50%.

ricklessabandon

My thoughts on Diana and a suggestion

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen 
One more thing: It would be a huge quality of life fix if you could make her Q not have infinite cast range, ie. have Diana move into range for her Q before casting it if the user tries to cast it outside of its range. Us smartcasters would feel a lot better about this one, especially since it's such a unique skillshot.
this is an interesting point. personally, i smartcast and i prefer the infinite cast range (especially since i sometimes care more about the arc than the end point), but i'll still bring it up just to make sure it was considered and that we do want it to work how it does currently.

thanks for the feedback!
Xypherous

Let's Talk About Health Regeneration per 5, ID Bretheren

I find this interesting mostly because, currently, the power of early passive HP/5 is one of the single greatest contributors to top-lane snowballing and the general dominance of the current top-tier junglers - and yet it's completely invisible to most players even as they spec into it.

People buy philosopher's stone so often - and yet what they value (the added mp/5 and gold boost) aren't the factors that cause them to destroy the lane. It's simply the raw additional hp/5 that is now effectively free for them that gives them tremendous lane control and presence.

Excessive HP/5 builds don't really work at the moment mostly because Regrowth gives you the right balance of early hp/5 to gold value to relevance in-game. You don't want to hard spec into a stat that simply doesn't matter later on. HP/5 as a whole falls off in relevance after early laning as other factors become more dominant (ultimates / jungler presence / team fights) - It's simply not a good mid-game or late-game stat when balanced for early game.

Then again.. Warden's Mail and Randuin's Omen are arguably two of the most powerful items in game - so I'm not actually sure that 'Spec'ing into HP/5' is weak either.

That said, you seem to have the seeds of your own counterargument built-in - since 'being able to survive for one minute > ruby crystal' seems like a valid strategy for most lane match-ups. If you find that 'being able to survive for one minute' is actually an impossible task for most characters - HP/5 would actually be low on my list of priorities and be more concerned with how much of a grinder top-lane has become.

IronStylus

Why is Diana considered a heretic?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NasukiFuinji 
Galieo was considered a Heretic
Specifically, I'm not sure if he was considered a heretic, but this is an analogy we used all the time during her development. There are a lot of similarities between her and him. He comes to a very powerful group of leaders, looking to show them the objective truth and he is spurned. The same with Diana. She returns with proof that her suspicions of balance and equal worship in the moon was nurtured by another society.

What remains a mystery is why the Solari are so ideologically against the Lunar religion.

I have my suspicions.
Samizul

Wukong's Decoy

The important thing about making his clone fun to use and play against is that it acts consistently. If it didn't act consistently then the Wukong player wouldn't be able to reliably fake its use, and enemy players wouldn't be able to feel smart by avoiding its AOE and continuing to chase after the invisible Wukong.

IMO his clone's main function is to serve as some (awesome) flavor for his stealth though.

Xypherous

Ranged AD Items - Need more selection

 

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Step 1: Nerf Phantom Dancer
Step 2: Nerf Bloodthirster
Step 3: Bring Sanguine Blade to SR/TT
Step 4: Make a Zeal/Brutalizer combo
Step 5: Make a Ex's calling + Brut combo
Step 6: Suddenly, AD's are making choices
No, they're not.

The problem with this route is that you've basically given people 6 different colored T-shirts. At the end of the day though, they're still t-shirts .

When tackling diversity of itemization - making 6 different colors of the same thing only makes things worse overall, not better - as it reduces optimal DPS to a math problem you need to solve before you start the game on your character.

Giving people a complex math problem so they can figure out their correct build doesn't increase item diversity any more than visually. Sure, Miss Fortune might have item X and Ashe might have item Y - but in the end, they're not making choices - it's just that item X maths out to more DPS on Fortune and item Y maths out to more DPS on Ashe. The Player still isn't making choices depending on the matchup and his playstyle. This is essentially why trying to make parallel damage builds is almost always toxic - as you turn the itemization game to be an elaborate math problem in the end. You introduce what you think is 'choice' but really all you introduce is obfuscation of 'the correct path'

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Even if each of these champs has one true path to DPS nirvana, if each path is even the slightest bit different then we're going to see these champs start having significantly different playstyles, even though they're filling the same role.
If you want to bifurcate carries - you're going to need a lot more than 'minor DPS' optimizations. If you want to drill down to looking at MF and Graves, for example - they both care about hitting a lot (W/E) - they both have multiple AD scaling burst skills (Q/R for both) and they both have AS steroids (W/E again). You don't want to make the 'optimal' set of damage items something that you need an excel document for - you need to fight damage with some other axis.

I think it's perfectly fine that IE/LW/PD is always the maximum damage line that a carry can have. The problem right now with carry itemization is that you can't make a lot of utility builds that fight against IE/LW/PD because the MS% on PD itself is the most valuable utility stat that the class wants. That is - IE/LW/PD being the simultaneously most powerful damage and utility line that's the problem. It's kind of like the old Zhonya's but amplified in effect.

(Okay, to be perfectly fair and not to dig on PD all the time - LW is probably too good on carries - That's a far more solveable problem when I can math *that* one out. :P)
NeeksNaman

New Free Champion Rotation (Season Two: Week 36)

Greetings Summoners!

Here are this week's free champions:

Week 36 (this week):



Wondering how we picked this week's free champions? Read up on it HERE.

See you on the Fields of Justice!

Meddler

Question about MR

 

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Originally Posted by HOODBO55 
Thank you.

But if every point gives 10 extra hp @ 1000 hp, why do I still feel like mr is more valuable the less you have of it? Or is that what you tried to explain to me? If it is, could you give me another example? I really want to understand this completely.
While each point of MR gives you the same amount of effective health sometimes you only need a certain amount to hit a sweet spot that really matters in terms of actual gameplay.

E.g. 80 MR may be enough to survive a burst combo and escape or burst back for the kill. 100 MR would leave you on higher health afterwards, which is certainly better and offers the same effective health per point of MR, but doesn't show as dramatic a difference in outcome (dead versus alive, compared to close to death versus moderately close to death).

~bakasan

When life and death intertwine then true chaos will over come this world.